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Post by The Bandit on Dec 16, 2004 13:25:39 GMT -5
Has the Jedi Council lost what it...well...Never was? The Council was pointless from the start, all it did was honor and praise those who were worthy of the title. Why have it if it's only for glory and honor? The Council members aren't even allowed to help make major decisions among the Order. When was the last time the COUNCIL made a decision? Never. When was the last time the Jedi made a decision? Before K1ddy. When was the last time K1ddy made a decision. Well, he's made everyone one himself! I don't even think they voted to ban me from the Council. Rhia told me she wanted me back on the Order, after I was expelled.
I propse that we do away with the Jedi Council, demote all Jedi Masters to Knights, and have it like the Old Republic Jedi Order. By doing something which helps the Order, you get promoted.
That is all I have to say.
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Post by Gurthok on Dec 16, 2004 13:36:29 GMT -5
"I feeel the need to call together a special meeting. Bandit and I had a talk, and we found that our Jedi Order is not the way it should be. Corruption lies somewhere within our Order, and I feel we must find this source and fix this issue. Jedi Master Bandit, your turn." - Me
"I would like to know why it is Bandit feels this way. With an order as large as this, you need some type of body that can be used to help set some standards. When there are not as many people, as I read in his earlier post, then no, you do not need a governing body.
As for people pointing out that I am the leader, I do not believe that is the case. Although Kira headed the Sith website and was the Darklord, she still runs it and is no longer in charge of the Sith. I feel as though there are plenty of others in the order who I would consider more important than me and moreso of an actual leader. Just because I am the one who is in charge of the Jedi homepage and the Spokesman, doesn't make me any more important than anyone else.
In the beginning when we first established the New Jedi Order, the idea of a Jedi Council was put up by Rhia and Odin who appointed me along side of them. It was the two of them who helped set the standards. Though I admit that through the merging of the Jedi Warriors and the Jedi Knights, too many Council Positions were aquired and too many people were promoted to Jedi Master. I however had no say in who was actually promoted. This was done by the forum. If they universally believed the person they voted for should be in the Jedi Council, then they believe they are worthy enough to become a Jedi Master. Out of the Masters that we currently have in the order, I say maybe 2-3 should not be there. That is just me however.
I would like to hear Bandit's reasoning behind this foul call of corruption within the Jedi. Because I do not see how this is so." - K1ddy
"That is why I called forth this meeting: so we can resolve this corruption issue and understand the matter.
By the way, who do you think shouldn't be here and why, K1ddy?" - Me
The above come before bandit's post. Here is my reply to his post.
Yes, I have noticed that the Order is somewhat corrupt in that it is K1ddy's choice that matters and not the council's. I wasn't even given a chance to vote on my own removal from the Trainer spot and nor did half the rest of the Council. In fact, I felt that the exiled Jedi should be given a chance to become reinstated as Jedi after a while, but Balom was not given this chance.
"I propse that we do away with the Jedi Council, demote all Jedi Masters to Knights, and have it like the Old Republic Jedi Order. By doing something which helps the Order, you get promoted."
And I too felt that changes need to be made to restore the Order to its former glory at the height of the Old Republic. After all, it was K1ddy himself who said on the site that the Order strives to regain this glory. But not one attempt was made at this reclaiming.
And quite frankly, I did do important stuff for the Order. I train multiple padawans so they may beecome Jedi, and I even put myself on the line to defend them when necessary. I do however want to know what you think is suitable as important. And with no Masters, how will we know if an action is worthy of gaining Masterhood for the Jedi? We do need Jedi Masters in order to tell whether someone is worthy of becoming a Master. NO
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Post by The Bandit on Dec 16, 2004 13:50:36 GMT -5
"the idea of a Jedi Council was put up by Rhia and Odin who appointed me along side of them."- K1ddy
That's what has always pissed me off, and my point exactly. They appointed themselve as Council members without giving anyone else any say so. The first Council voting we had, I was voted on the Council. But they went and made a knew one, and because I had to go I couldn't be on the Council.
That's all in the past, but now it's happening again. I didn't want to be on the Council, yet I am. The only reason I still am, is because no one else wants the position, plus I wouldn't be able to say anything without such an impact (which is another thing wrong with the Council). If NO one wants the position, doesn't that say something to you K1ddy?
What i feel is important is helping someone, train two maybe three Padawans. To be a Master now, you have to train five Padawans, help fifty people, recite the alphabet forward and backward, and walk through ten walls on a wheel chair. The Jedi Knight are NOT the Sith Lords. We shouldn't have to do obstacles to attain a high position and then suck up all the glory and honor for it. I do not think it matters if we have NO Knights and EVERYONE is a Master. GOOD! Then everyone should have helped the Order in some way!
(I might have missed something, if I did sorry.)
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Post by The Bandit on Dec 16, 2004 13:53:46 GMT -5
(Oh yeah. I forgot to say how it's happening again.)
K1ddy YOU are making the decisions. Not the Council. YOU are expelling members. Not the Council. YOU are being a jackass. Not the Council. YOU are a DICTATOR!
You're right. There are a few who shouldn't be on the Council. K1ddy and I (possible Hod). That's all. Gurthok has trained numerous Padawans, Lancer has trained close to the amount of Gurthok (and that's saying a LOT).
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Post by Gurthok on Dec 16, 2004 14:14:53 GMT -5
Bandit, I see where you have a point in the matter. It sounds like the Jedi Council was messed up in one way or the other from the start, and does need to be fixed. I myself would rather first discuss with the other members certain issues then get the other Jedis' opinions on the issue, making decisions affecting the entire Order be made BY the entire Order.
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Post by K1ddy on Dec 16, 2004 15:35:53 GMT -5
"You're right. There are a few who shouldn't be on the Council. K1ddy and I (possible Hod). That's all. Gurthok has trained numerous Padawans, Lancer has trained close to the amount of Gurthok (and that's saying a LOT). "
I have trained a total of 21 Padawans now (Yes I counted). You say I haven't trained anyone and I shouldn't be a Master? I have proven why I should be a Master in helping to train all these people.
"K1ddy YOU are making the decisions. Not the Council. YOU are expelling members. Not the Council. YOU are being a jackass. Not the Council. YOU are a DICTATOR!"
Actually, the time when we expelled you, I asked all the members of the Council at the time whether or not to expell you. It was I who posted the decision being the Spokesman. The times where I made the other decisions was when there were no active members in the Council making the decisions. IE Axem Steel and Zuckuss. The way the Council works now is that it requires half of the Council to pass something.
The people who I believe should be Masters are as follows:
Myself
Bandit
Gurthok
Lancer
Tashto
Hod
Steel
Zuckuss
Rhia
Tiger's Eye
Chris
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Post by Gurthok on Dec 16, 2004 15:52:36 GMT -5
"The way the Council works now is that it requires half of the Council to pass something. " - K1ddy
Excuse me!? Just WHEN did the council vote to approve THAT!? What if 1/2 votes one way and the other votes the other way, hmm? I don't see ANY such council voting post regarding this. And what if some of the members aren't on during that decision vote? That's not fair to them ifyou don't give THEM a chance to decide and vote. Council voting should wait for ALL active members to make a stand before any decision can go through.
And you should revert it back to the majority vote thing because if there's only two or four people left and you are one of the half that votes one way then that means what you says goes. Majority Vote(at least one more than half votes one way) is actually fair and is how the Council is SUPPOSED to work.
And btw, WHAT happened to Hod in the Council?
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Post by Lancer on Dec 17, 2004 17:19:16 GMT -5
"Yes, I have noticed that the Order is somewhat corrupt in that it is K1ddy's choice that matters and not the council's."-Gurthok
Gurthok, hello! K1ddy makes few decisions on his own, because there are few that are made. The Council has made few decisions for that very reason. I realize he does make his own decisions once and a while, but you should not be blowing it out of proportion.
"I wasn't even given a chance to vote on my own removal from the Trainer spot and nor did half the rest of the Council."-Gurthok
Gurthok, I can turn a lot of arguments on this one. First and foremost, if you are trying to make this game as realistic as possible, there would be no dead people on the Council. And besides, it would be a conflict of interest...and the Trainer spot wasn't a good one anyways.
"In fact, I felt that the exiled Jedi should be given a chance to become reinstated as Jedi after a while, but Balom was not given this chance."-Gurthok
You need to get your facts straight. He WAS given the chance. Unfortunately, he was not around when K1ddy announced that he and Hod would be able to be back with the Jedi(yes, yes, it was a K1ddy decision, but it was born on the Jedi Warriors topic, which was voted upon).
"There are a few who shouldn't be on the Council. K1ddy and I (possible Hod). That's all. Gurthok has trained numerous Padawans, Lancer has trained close to the amount of Gurthok (and that's saying a LOT)."
Umm...need I remind you that Gurthok has yet to fully train a SINGLE Padawan? And I have not helped much either. Of the two that I fully trained, one can't ever get on because of his parents, and the other can't get on because he is in college IRL. So I would say that neither of us have really helped the Council. You, K1ddy, and Hod have helped the Jedi more than either of us have...
"Excuse me!? Just WHEN did the council vote to approve THAT!? What if 1/2 votes one way and the other votes the other way, hmm? I don't see ANY such council voting post regarding this. And what if some of the members aren't on during that decision vote? That's not fair to them if you don't give THEM a chance to decide and vote. Council voting should wait for ALL active members to make a stand before any decision can go through."-Gurthok
Gurthok, has the thought occurred to you that the posts were purged several times? And it is kind of hard to get decisions made when most of the people are absent and never check this board unless there is a glitch.
"And you should revert it back to the majority vote thing because if there's only two or four people left and you are one of the half that votes one way then that means what you say goes. Majority Vote(at least one more than half votes one way) is actually fair and is how the Council is SUPPOSED to work."-Gurthok
Gurthok, who are you to say that that is how the council is supposed to work? We can't know if that was how it was in the movies, though it seems as though Yoda and Mace Windu do everything. And with the inactivity of several Council members, it would take weeks to argue the point on some issue where the council is divided 3-2. By then, the point would probably not be relevent.
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